This is comments page 1. Read the full post here:-Derren Brown Reveals Secret Of Lottery System Scams
LG // Feb 4, 2008 at 6:26 am
Oh, the only question that remains about ‘Derren Browns: The System’ is how did he switch to the correct winner at the end?
The selected horse lost the fifth race, but in true Derren finishing flourish it turned out he actually put her money on a different horse, that actually won.
Did he just pick the favourite, or was there another level of losers with only the winner broadcast… what do you think?
Chris Southall // Feb 4, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Initially I used a system on the football pools where I basically eliminated half the games and wheeled the rest. I submitted maybe 40 entries per week using a plan that guaranteed 9 from 10x .I won several times but only say gbp 1,000.With regard to the lottery I have used several wheels and used blocks of numbers. I think it is best to elimate numbers in one block say one to ten and try and wheel say 30 numbers or uses a series of triples.The max I have gained is four numbers.I watched the programme -it was excellent.I know several people who have won the lottery regards Chris southall
CHRIS SOUTHALL // Feb 4, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Difficult to say. The favourite won I think so maybe he hedged against all the horses and switched the winning slip whilst talking to the girl. In any event she was very happy and I was pleased for her. Also the programme gained media exposure for him so even if he lost money his fee for the progamm would have easily covered this nominal cost
Terry Tyler // Feb 4, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Yes i’d worked out the system from the outset because i’d seen this sort of thing before, plus there is NO SYSTEM that can guarantee giving 1 person the winner of 5 successive races with only 1 selection per race. When he took those people into that warehouse and i saw all those photos of people it just confirmed what i thought (that he’d sent to thousands of people). The bit at the end where he gave her the winning ticket, i think he (or the production company) just covered every horse (had £4000 on each runner) and then switched her ticket for the winning one (that’s why when he gave her ticket to her at first he just told her the name of the horse and didn’t let her see it). I must admit the coin toss had me bamboozled when he said there was no camera trickery…..but my sisters boyfriend worked it out. I thought he was wrong because i didn’t think Derren would spend all that time tossing a coin!!! Really enjoyed the programme…..I went to see Derren live 2 years ago (as a birthday present) and thought he was brilliant.
Like you Chris i also wheel numbers on the lottery…..best I’ve done in a week is 2 lines of 4 numbers and 1 line of 3.
Kathleen Jackson // Feb 5, 2008 at 11:53 am
I’m new at this so could you please explain how you pick the horse, or you wait to use the horses that won that day?
Teufel // Feb 5, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Too many gamers won’t or can’t do their own homework. I see a double edged…dominoe effect. Winners and losers. Folks refuse to understand that there is not a sure fired program that will give a consistant winning streak! There are programs of a sort that will keep you close enough to be in range of a win and that you have to do a good bit of theorizing but they still cannot guarantee a win.
Kate // Feb 6, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I think he managed to make the switch to the right winner in the end because, again, there was another layer of people. Look at it this way.
By the last race, we know it is a scam. So, if the horse he named wins, it’s amazing, OR if another horse wins, and he switched, it’s amazing.
Now this was a 5 horse race – – so it’s statistically easier to pick a winner. If it were non-animate objects, each has a 5-1 chance. You reduce that to 5-2 by being ok with either of 2 outcomes.
So, suppose he ended up with 5 or 6 people who reached that last race. And you take them to different race meetings, stick to 5 horse races and back within the favourites. Chances are very high indeed that you’ll get an outcome that will look great on the telly.
That’s how he did it.
Terry Tyler // Feb 6, 2008 at 5:28 pm
No you dont use the horses that won that day, you send the horse out in advance before the race is run… that is why the person is convinced that it works.
Sorry I’m not sure if you understood how the system worked… I’ll try to explain:
You start off finding a horse race with 6 runners and send an email to 7776 people saying that you have a winning system… but each of the 7776 people think the email you sent has just been sent to them only. Just to make it easy lets say the names of the horses in the 6 runner race are: A , B , C , D , E , F. You now split the 7776 people into 6 groups of 1296 people (7776 divided by 6)… You send one group of 1296 people an email saying Horse A will win, another group of 1296 people an email saying Horse B will win, another group of 1296 people an email saying Horse C will win etc (you do all this before the race is run). Let’s say Horse A wins… that means 1296 people won. What you then do is send the other 6480 people that lost (the groups that were given Horses B , C , D , E and F) an email apologising for their loss… and you carry forward the names of the 1296 people that won (who now start to think that you are on to something) ready to send them another email. You then find another 6 runner race, and the 1296 people that are left you then split into 6 groups (like the first time)… making 6 groups of 216 people. You then repeat what you did in the first race. You send one group of 216 people Horse A, 216 people Horse B etc. Lets again say Horse A wins… that means 216 people win (2 out of 2 winners)… again you send an email to the 1080 people that didn’t win apologising. On to race 3… again you find a 6 runner race and split the 216 remaining people into 6 groups of 36 with one horse per group. Again say Horse A wins… you have 36 people that have the winner (now you have given them 3 winners out of 3, and you really do think you are brilliant!) Again you carry the 36 winners forward to race 4… find a 6 runner race and split the 36 people into 6 groups of 6, again with one horse per group. Horse A wins… so 6 people win… now these 6 people are thinking you are a genius as you have given them 4 tips and 4 WINNERS! If you happen to get lucky and it’s not the favourite that wins on a couple of occasions but a 5/1 or 6/1 chance then those 6 people really convinced that you are in the know or an expert.
Hope that explains it quite well.
What some people do when they have 36 people left (and have given 3 out of 3 winners) is ask for money for their next tip or ask people to put money on for them (for the name of the horse)… that way they get 6 winners that pay them and can charge those 6 people again for another tip!
CityPunter // Feb 7, 2008 at 10:15 am
Here’s a point that no-one has picked up on from the show…
For the last bet Derren Brown supposedly placed the bet for her and gave her the betting slip. At Sandown racecourse where that race took place, the only place you can place a bet and get a betting slip is in the betting shops inside the grandstand.
However, she then collected her winnings from a bookie on the rails, where if she had placed the bet with him she would have received a ticket not a betting slip.
So clearly it wasn’t all as it seemed…
Neil // Feb 21, 2008 at 5:59 am
City Punter : The on course bookies now give out a betting slip type receipt from their electronic machines rather that the old style cardboard tickets. So maybe this was what she had.
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